Notes On Charlie - September 21
Charlie has Parvo, a fairly common canine disease that is often fatal. Death is caused by dehydration. Most pups are vaccinated for it but Charlie wasn't vaccinated - when he was tiny I was told it wasn't possible to vaccinate a coyote (including rabies), as it hasn't been determined if they would act as a carrier.
Luckily I'm neurotic and acted on the symptoms this morning instead of waiting a day or two in which case it would have been too late, and begged MC to call his vet to see if there was anything we could do. The vet was incredibly cool and sent MC home with an IV drip bag and six shots of antibiotics and told him how to administer it all, which MC then translated to me because he's afraid of needles. I have to laugh at the little things right now.
89 comments:
It's times like this it's good to know we're five months behind and Charlie is still alive and kicking. It's like knowing the story has a happy ending.
:) Yay!
He is ok right?
I agree with anonymous! I am so glad that turned out well. Love that Charlie!!!
well THANK GOD for your neuroses, charlie is incredibly lucky. my heart skipped a beat when i read your post, but i'm glad to hear he makes a (hopefully!) quick recovery.
whether or not i recover from the heart palpitations i had when i read your post is another matter entirely.
I agree with the above posts. I felt a pang of anxiety, but then quickly thought that we're reading about the past... thankfully.
What does it mean that it hasn't been determined if they would act as a carrier? If a coyote were to receive the vaccine, it might make him into a carrier of the disease rather than develop immunity to it?
Sheesh, that was frightening till I read the September 21 in the header. I'm breathing a sigh of relief because such a beautiful animal does not deserve such a thing. I remember when my puppy had tick-bite fever ... it was the most traumatic few days!
Oh - how scary - Parvo is a horrible disease. I worked for the Humane Society and have seen the evil stuff so much :(
I do hope that Charlie is fine and well now. Take care of that sweetheart.
Yeah... so I hadn't noticed the September 21 thing. Phew!! Glad Charlie is doing well. :)
Now that I know he can get parvo, I'll be all worried about rabies! Yeah, MY neuroses are kicking in... I'm glad that we've seen pictures since then and know he comes through OK, but what a scary experience that must have been for you, Shreve. I'm glad you have good Mama Coyote instincts! Or Mama Coyote neuroses. Whichever.
So that's what perhaps left him an orphan with no siblings? Could they have succumbed to parvo? Or the parents and the others to predation? Not the greatest questions, but I don't recall seeing the reason he was orphaned.
I am, of course, extremely pleased that the past is over now and he is well and good and in our midst.
Peace ~ Out
Teresa
I am so glad he is okay! Can it come back? I don't know what I'd do without a daily dose of Charlie!!
Oh no! I've seen a puppy die of Parvo, it is a scary scary disease. Thank goodness you found it early enough. (sigh of relief)
Hope things are going well, Parvo kills in a hurry, sure glad you jumped the gun and saw the vet.
I have to wonder about that vet.
That is what sucks about wild animals, the lack of veterinary care for them because most vets refuse to do it. When I worked in a petstore, some half Bobcat kittens came in and we couldn't take them to the regular vet to get their vaccines like all the other kittens that came in. I'm so happy to hear you found a cool vet that was willing to help you out!
http://www.coyoterescue.org/
Here is the link to our local coyote rescue here in Indiana. They may have more information than you received regarding vaccinations.
I am glad Charlie survived the parvo. it killed a couple of puppies my neighbor adopted a few months ago. She was told they had been vaccinated but never checked up on it.
G in INdiana
Quote from your blog:
I was told it wasn't possible to vaccinate a coyote (including rabies), as it hasn't been determined if they would act as a carrier.
I hope the vet that told you this is not the same one that gave you the Parvo medication for Charlie.
Because of the fact that Wolves and Coyotes can produce viable offspring with dogs means that they are the same genetically speaking.
Because of the fact that they are the same creatures in a genetic sense means that Rabies/Canine Distemper/Parvo vaccines will work on them equally well as they will with domesticated dogs.
--I wish you and Charlie the best of luck!
Having brought my kitty back from the brink of death once, I know how scary that can be. I am very happy Charlie is doing well; I dreamed last night I was in the desert and he came over a hill and wagged his tail at me.
So sorry to hear Charlie is under the weather. Hopefully the antibiotics will kick out that nasty bug. Sending you good thoughts and prayers!
shreve, what a scare! good mom that you are to him, you "knew." and you didn't diddle around wondering, you acted.
Shreve, I'm almost embarassed to be so happy that Charlie's okay--because I know this must have been a hellish time for you. Thanks so much for sharing your life with this incredible creature with us, and for being such a great coyote mom!
please check out the parvo treatment at this website! http://www.ambertech.com/index.php.
I don't vaccinate my dogs for health reasons, and try to keep all their medical treatments as natural as possible. I haven't used this myself, but have heard from friends (breeders with whole litters who got Parvo) how amazing it is.
I want Charlie to live! Get well soon!!
Oh my...that must have been really scary!
Speaking only to the situation in the one state I'm familiar with (Wisconsin) our vet told us that wild animals couldn't be vaccinated against Rabies, Parvo and Bortadella, not because it wasn't known if they were susceptible or carriers, but because the vaccines hadn't been tested on and certified for them, and therefore the efficacy of the vaccines was not certain. She did the vaccinations, but told us that as far as she was concerned, the pup was simply a husky mix, even though we knew quite well what the other half of the mix was.
I keep getting confused about this non-contemporaneous business with the notes and pictures (I'm apparently not as smart as Charlie). I was going to offer my hopes for his quick recovery, but now, in the spirit of time-travel science fiction, I am glad that we are all in the time-stream where he recovered.
{{{Happy thoughts and hugs for you and your sweet Charlie!}}}
Good lord I am SO glad Charlie is ok. Definite benefit of having the 5 month time-lag. :)
Oh hell, I NEED to read the headings more attentively! Shreve, you are amazing, and so is Charlie, and asking you to take good care of him would be preposterous not to mention stupid, so I'll just thank you.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand. Canis is Canis, whether it's a domestic dog, a coyote, or a wolf. Felis is Felis, whether a domestic tabby, a tiger, or a bobcat, or a lynx.
Why would a vet refuse to treat them? Why would they think that their treatments would make the animals "carriers?" If the disease can be treated successfully, then it would be "cured," wouldn't it?
Note to self: ALWAYS READ THE DATE ON SHREVE'S NOTES FIRST!!!
Phew! I'm too old for this. Had a flash back to a puppy I had many, many, many years ago that didn't survive distemper. So happy that Charlie is among us. Good job Shreve.
Peg
I really hope Charlie is going to be okay! I can't imagine life without Charlie and I only know of him through you! Please let us know how he is fairing and give him lots of hugs & kisses!
I did have a wee bit of a heart attack when I read this. I am happy we are on a time delay.
yeah, this is definitely a case where the 5 month lag is welcome.
I'm also confused as to the reason why the vet won't vaccinate. seems to me you would want to eliminate the chance of spreading disease any way possible.
is he simply another coyote hater?
Wolves, coyotes, all domestic dogs are CANINE, with gray wolves and coyotes having the SAME mitochodrial DNA. The best definition I've seen for species differentiation is 2 parents producing viable, fertile offspring, which is what happens with all 3 of these CANINES. They're all DOGS. Everything that is in a dog, is in a coyote, with the caveat that there is more in the coyote. Don't let a vet talk you out of his vaccinations!!!
I'm so sorry. I once had a puppy from the pound who wound up with parvo. Nasty stuff. Obviously you got him through it and kudos to you for reacting quickly.
I am still a bit nervous, because we know the posts are on a 5 month delay, but did I miss the part where we know for sure that Charlie IS okay in present time?
The pessimist inside of me is a little anxious every day that the newest post will be bad news, although I envisioned it having to do with hunters - parvo never occurred to me. :( I have wondered if the story of Charlie is still going on today, or if it actually ended a while back, and we just haven't gotten to that part yet.
Of course, I am certainly HOPING that's not the case. Shreve and Charlie and Eli are 3 of my favorite beings on this planet, so I want Charlie to be fine, and for everyone to still be happy and frolicking today and every day! I hope all is well now!!!
Haha, wow. Thank goodness for that time lag! It must have been terrifying, though, and I'm very glad you caught it right away and that he's presumably doing much better.
Also, this has probably already been pointed out, but I just thought I'd mention it because it cracked me up--in the Q&A, you say Charlie's very protective of his "elf legs". Hee. I suppose those would be hard to come by. XD
You had me holding my breath with your opening sentence.I did not realize how much emotion I have invested in Charlie.I can imagine it must be a thousand fold for you.I hope the three of you are all healthy and happy.
Parvo is nasty stuff - I've seen it kill. I'm relieved to know that Charlie pulled through thanks to your quick thinking.
Check out www.hannasherbshop.com and check out a homeopathic product that would help his body get rid of the virus all together. If you call them they might be able to help figure out the best product.
a foster dog we have right now had parvo when we first got her. She was in bad shape but pulled thru. The vet said the majority of vets just put them down these days, so sad!
what a brave pair you two make.
We don't know how you managed to do that. Did Charlie resist being poked with a needle and how did you keep him still during the drip? We have a Bengal cat and we have trouble just getting her into a carrier to go to the Vet. She is like a tiger and refuses to get into the carrier. We have tried 3 different types of carriers in hopes of finding one that she will accept. We finally found a game that she likes to play. When we fold sheets she wants to jump into them, so we let her and then wrapped her up and put her in the carrier. Of course she howled the whole trip, but once she got to the vet she was an angel. Hope everything turns out great for you and Charlie and Eli.
they say a dog only has a 50-50 chance of making it through if caught in time...it just goes to show how aware of Charlie's behavior you are...hopefully, this will put any of the nay-sayers to rest about your knowledge and dedication to this animal...from what I read, it seems like this disease will have to be managed for the rest of his life, as there is no cure...is it difficult? how did he deal with the IV and antibiotics? My cat wouldn't talk to me for a month after I had to give him meds...
for anyone looking for more info on the disease you can check out this site...
http://www.workingdogs.com/parvofaq.htm
Get better Charlie!
I am glad to hear Charlie made it through the parvo. I look forward to seeing him so much it would be such a heartbreak to see such a beautiful creature die of such a nasty illness. Wishing you, Charlie and Eli the best of health and happiness!
Scary! At least if/assuming he made it through, he will now carry antibodies for it the natural way. Parvo is a top killer of pups. Rabies is much much more rare. Bordatella is usually only seriously dangerous to the immune compromised. You might want to look into getting a rabies shot though if possible and check out some other vets and contact people who work with wild animal rescue. There are a number of groups in CA who do stuff like that and could probably give advice. I have learned over the years that most vets just aren't qualified to give advice on unusual situations that weren't covered in their initial training. -E
TG we know Charlie is okay because everything is 5 mos delayed!
OMG!
I am unclear, did this happen months ago, or this week?
Im still worried.
Ah, ok.
I just noticed the date in the title.
Im not worried anymore.
Just a little sheepish ;)
There's currently a discussion going on about mass vaccinations of wild animals in Europe to see if rabies on continental Europe can be either wiped out or drastically reduced. Many varieties of wild animal *can* be vaccinated against rabies and other fatal diseases -- and in many places, are.
Genetically, dogs and wolves are in fact not different species, but the same species. I understand that coyotes are slightly more distant. However, I cannot for the life of me think of any valid biological reason why a coyote should be refused vaccinations; at the very worst, they simply wouldn't work. Given the nature of vaccines, the chances of them making him a carrier range between "slim" and "none".
--Luna, speaking here as a biologist, though not a vet.
OMG Shreve please jump on here and let us know that he is TRULY ok! I won't rest until I hear it straight from Charlie's mom!
I understand the date lag and all, but I still feel slightly nauseous worrying about my dear Charlie boy.
I am glad that Charlie is ok, and it is a good thing that you acted quickly! Working in an animal shelter environment I know all too well how deadly Parvo can be.
It is a horrible virus and I am glad Charlie was able to survive it. He is lucky to have you.
Poor Charlie. Good to hear you not only caught it quick, but found sympathetic vet care.
Most people in my area don't vaccinate for Parvo. I do because I know from my vet that it's rife in the area and several pups have died from it.
I was so paranoid about it that I followed the vet's advice and only walked my dogs on hard surfaces, due to Parvo being transmitted through the ground, until their final injections kicked in.
sWow, I'd never thought that coyotes wouldn't be able to be vaccinated for rabies so I did a quick google check. In south texas there was an outbreak of rabies in the coyote population about a decade ago. Officials there made an oral bait with vaccine and spread it all over. It seemed to work. Also there is a canine rabies vaccine injection that contains only killed virus. There's no way the animal could become a carrier. Plus I know that zoos routinely vaccinate their canine charges. Find an animal rehabilitator. I bet they could direct you to a vet who would give Charlie his vaccinations. Then you won't have to worry.
Long live all three of you!
Mary Ray
Read the article then read the comments, then went back to see what else I had not read carefully.
Was amused by the mention of elF legs.
And the picture in the snow is of an elegant animal. I feel so sad that they are treated the way they are.
We had a coyote family each of several years when we first moved here--don't know what happened to them.
We would see them in the evening at the lower edge of our middling large back yard, where the apple trees were and the pears still are.
They (the bigger ones anyway) would pick up an apple or a pear and tip their heads way back (think baying-at-the-moon) and crush the fruit as if to let the juice run down their throats.
We have had cats disappear mysteriously, but I am pretty sure raccoons were the perps in at least some of the cases.
By the way, the lower part of the yard is where, in better weather, our elderly cat and a red tail hawk both hunt. Red tail in the top of a cedar, old (18 years?) cat at the base, both peering into the tall grass along the barbed wire.
2/05/2008
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Oh God, thank goodness you caught it, Shreve!!! And yeah, we're months behind so I'm relieved that he made it out okay....
Get better Charlie!!!!!
Oh no! I'm glad you acted on it so quickly!
Be still my heart! Oh man, I've barely recovered from the tale of the snake incident, and now to hear of this horror that you had to endure - so sorry you guys had to go through that! Smart mama for acting on instinct (you and Charlie are so tuned-in to each other) and brave girl for starting the IV, injecting the antibiotics and nursing him back to health. Good job!
Oh man... best of luck to the poor little guy!
I have to give my CRF cat fluids and he's not the most co-operative creature..am wondering how Charlie did with them :)
Thank goodness you caught it in time!
Always love your pictures.
I know that this was back in September, and can only assume that because you are still blogging (and that we've seen the picture of him running in the snow), that he is okay. I can't imagine what a scary time that must have been for you.
in Ontario there have been several successful rabies vaccination programs for coyotes (and other wild creatures) involving bait vaccines - bits of meat or whatever with an oral vaccine in them. i have no idea though where someone with a coyote in their family could get such a thing - "harbouring" wildlife is a serious offence in this province.
please don't knock the vets folks. in Ontario a veterinarian who practices medicine on a wild animal without the additional, completely different certifications, can lose her license.
Is it definite that Charlie is ok as of February 5, 2008? Please advise. What a beautiful creature he is.
Please no suspense on Parvo.
Nancy
Yes, Charlie is fine. We made it through. The next few days will tell the story of that time. S.S.
Poor charlie. I guess things turned out alright, but it must have been very worrisome at the time. And it's great to see extra pictures today.
I am worried for you and Charlie! Get well soon, furry one!
Thank God you acted on your instincts! I nursed a dog thru parvo in Cameroon...vet said there was little chance, but he gave her horrible huge shots & I fed her milk/bread sops and she pulled thru to bear a marvelous doggie, Moose, whom I brought back home with me and had for 16 wonderful years! Guess they had good constitutions!
Pay attention to your instincts! So glad your blog is months behind & we knew the end was happy.
oh my goodness!
Delurking....love the site, and your story! My heart just dropped while reading this, then I remembered the posts are months behind. Whew!
-Jennie
I've been reading for a while. :)
Hope Charlie is OK!!!!!!
Thank you for the confirmation Shreve. Again, I know about the lag but I was still freaking out! I will rest much easier tonight. God bless all of you.
Ah, I know the timeline, and that the subscription pictures are more recent, but still I was SCARED! I too, have lost a pet or 2 to Parvo, & it's hard no matter what - and thank you SO much for stepping in to relieve the minds of all of us who love Charlie, you, and Eli.
We're having terrible thunderstorms here in Missouri tonite, & I have a very nervous dog on either side of me on the sofa. Huggin my beloved furpieces, please hug yours for us! Thank you for saving him, and thank him for having the will to live!
Downright spooky! I was just wondering yesterday if Charlie had been vaccinated against the stuff domestic dogs usually are. Parvo is so serious, I'm glad you followed your instincts.
i don't want to muddle too much in the details... but parvo actually causes death because of a combo of dehydration, endotoxemia, and sepsis. the parvo VIRUS attacks the rapidly dividing crypt cells of the intestinal tract leading to malabsorptive and exudative diarrhea (the dehydration), but all that damage in the intestines also allows the bacterial normal flora of the intestines to leak out into the body (endotoxemia) and cause sepsis (circulatory collapse + multiorgan failure = death). the normal flora (gram negative bacteria) is why antibiotics are needed/given.
lastly, was there actually a definitive diagnosis of parvo? i.e., fecal snap test?
I losed a pair of heart beats over this, too. It's so easy to disregard the post date!
get well soon charlie!
Heart in my throat? Yeah, me too. And even though I did note the date, it was kind of you to reassure this coyote-loving community, Shreve, because nothing else was going to let us sleep soundly.
How wise to follow your instincts. You have a good teacher in Charlie!
DjBrown
can i send a hug back in time? i'll try.
[[[HUG]]] to you and charlie back in September.
I DID send a hug back in time. Via the magic of Reiki...
Hadn't checked in for a while. Was scrolling back to pick up the story where I left off.... checking a word or two to see whether I had scrolled back far enough yet... "Parvo" jumps off the screen and into my chest where it stops my heart for a bit.
Eyes scramble to see the date... whew, this was long ago. Find the bit about 'date delay.'
Heck.
Maybe all is NOT SO WELL. Read some more, check out comments... YES! Shreve assures us that Charlie pulled through ok.
Begin breathing again...
Props to MC, for gathering information regarding needles. I am afraid of them too, and know what a challenge it can be to be in the same space with the little buggers. Love can help you do heroic things, when the need arises. Thank you, MC.
OMG i would have been SOOOOO sad if he had died. He is just the cutest little thing and i love seeing his pictures
The vet being reluctant to vaccinate Charlie is completely understandable, as there has been no real controlled testing on the effectiveness of canine vaccinations on the coyote. Vaccinating Charlie in spite of that is questionably ethical, and open the vet of to the possibility of lawsuit or loss of license.
However, that "carrier" nonsense is a bunch of bull. ALL vaccines used currently are either killed virus vaccines, or in a few select cases, modified live virus vaccines (which have been genetically altered to be non-virulent). The worst that could happen is that Charlie could have an adverse reaction to the vaccine. More likely is that the vaccine would just be ineffective. The most likely outcome, considering the similar genetics of coyotes and dogs, is that it would work exactly the same for him as it would for any dog.
Coyotes and dogs are NOT the same species, however. Shawnj and jon are mistaken that the ability to interbreed makes all canids the same species, as that is only true under the biological concept of species, which is largely considered to be outdated.
And there IS a genetic difference between Canis lupus familiaris and Canis latrans:
http://www.idir.net/~wolf2dog/wayne2.htm
Also, people who don't vaccinate their animals need to be dragged out back in shot, in my professional opinion.
I'm glad Charlie pulled through okay, though.
I almost left work early in depression when I read today about Charlie's parvo. I imagined the worst, and found myself hunting for clues about the outcome.
I've always thought that the picture of Charlie in the snow looks like a digital construct, and by lunch I'd convinced myself that it was your tribute to Charlie who never lived to see snow himself. (geez, I'm choking up just *writing* this!)
But then I decided that if you're accepting donations for "Charlie's happiness and safety," he must have gotten better.
Thanks for the assurance, Shreve. I'll sleep much better tonight!
Whew! As usual, I went directly to the photo and your message without looking at the date but then noticed it with great relief. My heartbeat is returning to normal now.
Thanks for your reassuring comment.
I'm kind of weirded out by needles too but a few months ago it was determined by my vet and also my sister (who is a vet) that one of my older cats would greatly benefit from sub-q fluids a few times a week. I thought I would die but one lesson from the vet and knowing that this responsibility of mine needed it got me over the needle thing. I have a small triage unit set up in my laundry room and every two days we do the needle/fluid thing and now it's just a no brainer.
I am glad Charlie is surviving parvo. I wish more owners of dogs were as conscientious as you are with this "wild" thing.
This story of yours continues to amuse and obsess me. I hope someday you will find a way to share it in a book for adults and another one for children.
We rescued a puppy and it turned out he had Parvo. The owners tossed him out of the car when they found out he had parvo. So we found him under a car and took him to the vet to see what was the matter.
Needless to say we had two trips a day to the vet. We got treated out in the car as it is also very contagious.
He pulled through and is now a great dog. Hope Charlie pulls through also.
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